Jej kroku dla jest prostu ściany czy hobbit radośnie oddawać big a perspective from a law enforcement standpoint as we can, and then we also have embedded private industry. And we're able to share information at a personal level with those that are on-site, but then those that are also off-site. We achieve our goals by facilitating the sharing and aggregating it across different industries and sectors, it's not just sector-specific. We're able to share that information across the different sectors and across law enforcement. Believe it or not, government agencies and law enforcement 't always talk to each other, and the reality of it is that government agencies are competition with each other. Sometimes their lanes overlap. A lot of times, their lanes overlap, and there needs to be that de-confliction. There's plenty-to be honest with you, there's plenty-we all know there's plenty of work for everybody out there. all we really need to do is find a way to de-conflict, stay our lanes, work with each other when we can and when we need to, while serving the needs of private industry. There's a lot of things that have already been discussed, and I know we're going to talk about a lot of things like trust and facilitating the sharing of that information, but one of the things that's critical is just being a member of, say, organization is not the end because-I call them a Looky You're just going to look and read, and you're just going to absorb this, but it's the two-way sharing that's really important. Trust is what builds that two-way sharing capability, but it's the two-way sharing that is really critical order to make any of this work. And I'll leave it there. I know I usually keep going if you let me, ECHOLS: VISNER: Thanks. I'm Visner. I'm actually here -and although I run a cyber P&L for a company called ICF, I'm here representing the Intelligence and National Security Alliance for whom I'm co-chairing the Cyber R&D Task Force, which is working on both trying to strengthen a national cyber R&D strategy and build a national cyber R&D ISAO. And by the way, as we were all sitting down here, as we were trying to figure out how we would get all of us at the table, he said we're going to need a bigger boat. I saw that movie recently. I think what they really needed was a smaller shark. VISNER: But they didn't get either. It ended badly for most of them. What I really am hoping to talk about today is what we do to improve information sharing for cyber R&D. first, the why of it, and the why, I think is that while I agree absolutely with Deputy Assistant Secretary Touhill that there is a huge risk component to the cybersecurity problem, I think there is also a larger component that relates to our nation's global role, global standing, and global power. Other countries are using their ability to impair our cybersecurity, to conduct exploitation and attack, to change the global order, to diminish our global role, our global standing, and enhance their own. They look at cybersecurity as the security of bordered sovereign cyberspace which they intend to become preeminent, and they're pretty clear about their objectives there. We more and more complex cyber operations representing the intersection of advanced cybersecurity technology plus really patient, disciplined, effective, well-resourced trade craft on behalf of state actors and organized cyber criminals. that interaction of great trade craft and great technology the hands of adversaries, cyber criminals, and state organizations is more than-it goes beyond public safety, and it goes beyond risk. It goes to the very-to our nation's very standing the global order and our role preserving both national security and international security. that's what I really think is at stake here, and that's why I think this issue is critically important. That's why when we talk about cybersecurity information sharing for R&D, I look back to other issues, other problems, and, challenged me to be robust comments. hopefully, I rise, to that challenge. But when I think about other problems which our global standing and global role was at stake, nuclear energy, aerospace science and engineering, which allowed us to become preeminent aerospace and eventually get to the these were areas which we built national strategies for R&D, for nuclear science, for aerospace science. And having built those strategies, we started to build real information sharing architectures the post-war and then eventually, we began to build information sharing, not only information sharing architectures, but organizations. And contention and the contention of those with whom I'm working the Intelligence and National Security Alliance, that if we're going to be effective cybersecurity, we need a national cyber R&D strategy to be able to deal with problems like securing critical infrastructure and SCADA systems and industrial control systems and highly virtualized systems and systems that run where workloads are allocated to different cloud environments, which expend-systems that extend all the way from your mobile device all the way through the shop floor on a shared infrastructure and possibly a virtualized and cloud infrastructure. We need to be